Welcome Jonas Bonér to the Lift committers

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dpp
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Welcome Jonas Bonér to the Lift committers

dpp
Folks,

Please join me in welcoming Jonas as a Lift committer.  I had the pleasure of meeting Jonas as QCon in London this month.  Jonas, Tim, and I went out a grabbed a few pints and chatted.  I think Jonas has a lot to contribute to Lift.

So, please join me in welcoming him!

Thanks,

David

--
Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
Git some: http://github.com/dpp

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Re: Welcome Jonas Bonér to the Lift committers

TylerWeir

w00p w00p!

Welcome!

On Mar 30, 12:52 pm, David Pollak <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Folks,
>
> Please join me in welcoming Jonas as a Lift committer.  I had the pleasure
> of meeting Jonas as QCon in London this month.  Jonas, Tim, and I went out a
> grabbed a few pints and chatted.  I think Jonas has a lot to contribute to
> Lift.
>
> So, please join me in welcoming him!
>
> Thanks,
>
> David
>
> --
> Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net
> Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
> Follow me:http://twitter.com/dpp
> Git some:http://github.com/dpp
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Re: Welcome Jonas Bonér to the Lift committers

Viktor Klang
Welcome Jonas! :)

Great to have you aboard!

On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 6:58 PM, TylerWeir <[hidden email]> wrote:

w00p w00p!

Welcome!

On Mar 30, 12:52 pm, David Pollak <[hidden email]>
wrote:
> Folks,
>
> Please join me in welcoming Jonas as a Lift committer.  I had the pleasure
> of meeting Jonas as QCon in London this month.  Jonas, Tim, and I went out a
> grabbed a few pints and chatted.  I think Jonas has a lot to contribute to
> Lift.
>
> So, please join me in welcoming him!
>
> Thanks,
>
> David
>
> --
> Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net
> Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890



--
Viktor Klang
Senior Systems Analyst

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Re: Welcome Jonas Bonér to the Lift committers

Marius Danciu
In reply to this post by dpp

Welcome Jonas !

On Mar 30, 7:52 pm, David Pollak <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> Folks,
>
> Please join me in welcoming Jonas as a Lift committer.  I had the pleasure
> of meeting Jonas as QCon in London this month.  Jonas, Tim, and I went out a
> grabbed a few pints and chatted.  I think Jonas has a lot to contribute to
> Lift.
>
> So, please join me in welcoming him!
>
> Thanks,
>
> David
>
> --
> Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net
> Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
> Follow me:http://twitter.com/dpp
> Git some:http://github.com/dpp
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Re: Welcome Jonas Bonér to the Lift committers

Lee Mighdoll-3
Welcome Jonas!

I'd been thinking that some judicious use of aspectJ might be a nice fit for lift.  Rumor has it you know something about aspects...

Lee


On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 11:15 AM, marius d. <[hidden email]> wrote:

Welcome Jonas !

On Mar 30, 7:52 pm, David Pollak <[hidden email]>
wrote:
> Folks,
>
> Please join me in welcoming Jonas as a Lift committer.  I had the pleasure
> of meeting Jonas as QCon in London this month.  Jonas, Tim, and I went out a
> grabbed a few pints and chatted.  I think Jonas has a lot to contribute to
> Lift.
>
> So, please join me in welcoming him!
>
> Thanks,
>
> David
>
> --
> Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net
> Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890


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dpp
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Re: Welcome Jonas Bonér to the Lift committers

dpp


On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Lee Mighdoll <[hidden email]> wrote:
Welcome Jonas!

I'd been thinking that some judicious use of aspectJ might be a nice fit for lift.  Rumor has it you know something about aspects...

AspectJ over my dead body.  :-)

I think AOP is a dangerous and generally very bad thing to do (sorry Jonas).  I have not found an application for it in Scala and would need a lot of convincing to include it with anything Lift-related.

Sorry for the wicked negative vibe against AOP... but it's one of my hard-core things.
 

Lee



On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 11:15 AM, marius d. <[hidden email]> wrote:

Welcome Jonas !

On Mar 30, 7:52 pm, David Pollak <[hidden email]>
wrote:
> Folks,
>
> Please join me in welcoming Jonas as a Lift committer.  I had the pleasure
> of meeting Jonas as QCon in London this month.  Jonas, Tim, and I went out a
> grabbed a few pints and chatted.  I think Jonas has a lot to contribute to
> Lift.
>
> So, please join me in welcoming him!
>
> Thanks,
>
> David
>
> --
> Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net
> Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890






--
Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
Git some: http://github.com/dpp

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Re: Welcome Jonas Bonér to the Lift committers

Lee Mighdoll-3
Certainly, maintaining an aspect compiler in the project would be hassle.  Probably not worth debating AOP unless there's a case that really calls for it.  My guess is that most uses of aspects will eventually get rolled into scala compiler plugins, anyway, but that aspectJ could be an interim strategy if there's a use case.

Lee
 
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 11:53 AM, David Pollak <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Lee Mighdoll <[hidden email]> wrote:
Welcome Jonas!

I'd been thinking that some judicious use of aspectJ might be a nice fit for lift.  Rumor has it you know something about aspects...

AspectJ over my dead body.  :-)

I think AOP is a dangerous and generally very bad thing to do (sorry Jonas).  I have not found an application for it in Scala and would need a lot of convincing to include it with anything Lift-related.

Sorry for the wicked negative vibe against AOP... but it's one of my hard-core things.
 

Lee



On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 11:15 AM, marius d. <[hidden email]> wrote:

Welcome Jonas !

On Mar 30, 7:52 pm, David Pollak <[hidden email]>
wrote:
> Folks,
>
> Please join me in welcoming Jonas as a Lift committer.  I had the pleasure
> of meeting Jonas as QCon in London this month.  Jonas, Tim, and I went out a
> grabbed a few pints and chatted.  I think Jonas has a lot to contribute to
> Lift.
>
> So, please join me in welcoming him!
>
> Thanks,
>
> David
>
> --
> Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net
> Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890






--
Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890


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Re: Welcome Jonas Bonér to the Lift committers

Josh Suereth
I think AspectJ compiler currently pukes on scala classes anyway (or at least it did when Miles set up aspectj as a workaround the Eclipse JDT).  So... no dice for AspectJ + Scala without using a Java "glue" class.

On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 3:12 PM, Lee Mighdoll <[hidden email]> wrote:
Certainly, maintaining an aspect compiler in the project would be hassle.  Probably not worth debating AOP unless there's a case that really calls for it.  My guess is that most uses of aspects will eventually get rolled into scala compiler plugins, anyway, but that aspectJ could be an interim strategy if there's a use case.

Lee

 
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 11:53 AM, David Pollak <[hidden email]> wrote:


On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Lee Mighdoll <[hidden email]> wrote:
Welcome Jonas!

I'd been thinking that some judicious use of aspectJ might be a nice fit for lift.  Rumor has it you know something about aspects...

AspectJ over my dead body.  :-)

I think AOP is a dangerous and generally very bad thing to do (sorry Jonas).  I have not found an application for it in Scala and would need a lot of convincing to include it with anything Lift-related.

Sorry for the wicked negative vibe against AOP... but it's one of my hard-core things.
 

Lee



On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 11:15 AM, marius d. <[hidden email]> wrote:

Welcome Jonas !

On Mar 30, 7:52 pm, David Pollak <[hidden email]>
wrote:
> Folks,
>
> Please join me in welcoming Jonas as a Lift committer.  I had the pleasure
> of meeting Jonas as QCon in London this month.  Jonas, Tim, and I went out a
> grabbed a few pints and chatted.  I think Jonas has a lot to contribute to
> Lift.
>
> So, please join me in welcoming him!
>
> Thanks,
>
> David
>
> --
> Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net
> Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890






--
Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890





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Re: Welcome Jonas Bonér to the Lift committers

Miles Sabin

On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Josh Suereth <[hidden email]> wrote:
> I think AspectJ compiler currently pukes on scala classes anyway (or at
> least it did when Miles set up aspectj as a workaround the Eclipse JDT).

That was certainly the case quite recently ... I filed a bug against
AspectJ which as far as I know hasn't been fixed yet.

> So... no dice for AspectJ + Scala without using a Java "glue" class.

Yup, AspectJ can only advise Java classes. Seeing as it's Aspect*J*
the advice itself is essentially written in Java. But advice can call
Scala code, so it's possible to do most of any heavy lifting in Scala.

FWIW, my attitude to AOP used to be the same as David's: I thought it
was evil because ... it represents a gross violation of encapsulation
and modularity and is the moral equivalent of INTERCAL's COME FROM
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COME_FROM).

I've now seen the light and realize that AOP is wonderful because ...
it gives me all that tools I need to grossly violate the encapsulation
and modularity of the JDT ;-)

I would say that you should consider AOP when all of the following
conditions are met,

* You need to change the interface/behaviour of a third party component.

* You can't persuade the third party to accomodate you.

* You have access to the source code of the component.

* Forking, replicating or replacing the component would be too painful.

* You are able to commit to tracking changes in the component to
accommodate the inevitable breakage of time as it evolve
independently.

This happens surprisingly often (except maybe the last), both wrt open
source and internal enterprise projects, which goes a long way to
explaining the success of AOP as a model.

Cheers,


Miles

--
Miles Sabin
tel:    +44 (0)1273 720 779
mobile: +44 (0)7813 944 528
skype:  milessabin

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Re: Welcome Jonas Bonér to the Lift committers

Marius Danciu
In reply to this post by dpp



On Mar 30, 9:53 pm, David Pollak <[hidden email]>
wrote:

> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Lee Mighdoll <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
> > Welcome Jonas!
>
> > I'd been thinking that some judicious use of aspectJ might be a nice fit
> > for lift.  Rumor has it you know something about aspects...
>
> AspectJ over my dead body.  :-)
>
> I think AOP is a dangerous and generally very bad thing to do (sorry Jonas).
>  I have not found an application for it in Scala and would need a lot of
> convincing to include it with anything Lift-related.
>
> Sorry for the wicked negative vibe against AOP... but it's one of my
> hard-core things.


I tend to agree. A while back was really interested in AspectJ played
with it but in practice I never ever needed it. Especially with Scala
where we have higher order functions and closures. I am still
wondering how AspectJ survives :) ..jus' kiddin' I'm sure there is a
market for it somewhere.

>
>
>
>
>
> > Lee
>
> > On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 11:15 AM, marius d. <[hidden email]>wrote:
>
> >> Welcome Jonas !
>
> >> On Mar 30, 7:52 pm, David Pollak <[hidden email]>
> >> wrote:
> >> > Folks,
>
> >> > Please join me in welcoming Jonas as a Lift committer.  I had the
> >> pleasure
> >> > of meeting Jonas as QCon in London this month.  Jonas, Tim, and I went
> >> out a
> >> > grabbed a few pints and chatted.  I think Jonas has a lot to contribute
> >> to
> >> > Lift.
>
> >> > So, please join me in welcoming him!
>
> >> > Thanks,
>
> >> > David
>
> >> > --
> >> > Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net
> >> > Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
> >> > Follow me:http://twitter.com/dpp
> >> > Git some:http://github.com/dpp
>
> --
> Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net
> Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
> Follow me:http://twitter.com/dpp
> Git some:http://github.com/dpp
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Re: Welcome Jonas Bonér to the Lift committers

chas
In reply to this post by dpp

Welcome, Jonas!

David Pollak wrote:

> Folks,
>
> Please join me in welcoming Jonas as a Lift committer.  I had the
> pleasure of meeting Jonas as QCon in London this month.  Jonas, Tim, and
> I went out a grabbed a few pints and chatted.  I think Jonas has a lot
> to contribute to Lift.
>
> So, please join me in welcoming him!
>
> Thanks,
>
> David
>
> --
> Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
> Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
> Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
> Git some: http://github.com/dpp
>
> >

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Re: Welcome Jonas Bonér to the Lift committers

chas
In reply to this post by dpp

I'd have to second David on this. If it ain't broke...

David Pollak wrote:

>
>
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Lee Mighdoll <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     Welcome Jonas!
>
>     I'd been thinking that some judicious use of aspectJ might be a nice
>     fit for lift.  Rumor has it you know something about aspects...
>
>
> AspectJ over my dead body.  :-)
>
> I think AOP is a dangerous and generally very bad thing to do (sorry
> Jonas).  I have not found an application for it in Scala and would need
> a lot of convincing to include it with anything Lift-related.
>
> Sorry for the wicked negative vibe against AOP... but it's one of my
> hard-core things.
>  
>
>
>     Lee
>
>
>
>     On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 11:15 AM, marius d. <[hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>
>         Welcome Jonas !
>
>         On Mar 30, 7:52 pm, David Pollak <[hidden email]
>         <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>         wrote:
>          > Folks,
>          >
>          > Please join me in welcoming Jonas as a Lift committer.  I had
>         the pleasure
>          > of meeting Jonas as QCon in London this month.  Jonas, Tim,
>         and I went out a
>          > grabbed a few pints and chatted.  I think Jonas has a lot to
>         contribute to
>          > Lift.
>          >
>          > So, please join me in welcoming him!
>          >
>          > Thanks,
>          >
>          > David
>          >
>          > --
>          > Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net
>         <http://liftweb.net>
>          > Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
>         <http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890>
>          > Follow me:http://twitter.com/dpp
>          > Git some:http://github.com/dpp
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
> Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
> Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
> Git some: http://github.com/dpp
>
> >

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Re: Welcome Jonas Bonér to the Lift committers

Derek Chen-Becker-4
Welcome Jonas!

On the other topic of this thread:

AOP has its place, but I think that Lift has done an excellent job of providing hooks into the processing of requests at appropriate points, which to me greatly reduces and I'd argue eliminates any benefit from AOP for Lift.

Derek

On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 4:25 PM, Charles F. Munat <[hidden email]> wrote:

I'd have to second David on this. If it ain't broke...

David Pollak wrote:
>
>
> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Lee Mighdoll <[hidden email]
> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>     Welcome Jonas!
>
>     I'd been thinking that some judicious use of aspectJ might be a nice
>     fit for lift.  Rumor has it you know something about aspects...
>
>
> AspectJ over my dead body.  :-)
>
> I think AOP is a dangerous and generally very bad thing to do (sorry
> Jonas).  I have not found an application for it in Scala and would need
> a lot of convincing to include it with anything Lift-related.
>
> Sorry for the wicked negative vibe against AOP... but it's one of my
> hard-core things.
>
>
>
>     Lee
>
>
>
>     On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 11:15 AM, marius d. <[hidden email]
>     <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>
>
>         Welcome Jonas !
>
>         On Mar 30, 7:52 pm, David Pollak <[hidden email]
>         <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>         wrote:
>          > Folks,
>          >
>          > Please join me in welcoming Jonas as a Lift committer.  I had
>         the pleasure
>          > of meeting Jonas as QCon in London this month.  Jonas, Tim,
>         and I went out a
>          > grabbed a few pints and chatted.  I think Jonas has a lot to
>         contribute to
>          > Lift.
>          >
>          > So, please join me in welcoming him!
>          >
>          > Thanks,
>          >
>          > David
>          >
>          > --
>          > Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net
>         <http://liftweb.net>
>          > Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
>         <http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890>
>          > Follow me:http://twitter.com/dpp
>          > Git some:http://github.com/dpp
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
> Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
> Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
> Git some: http://github.com/dpp
>
> >




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Re: Welcome Jonas Bonér to the Lift committers

Josh Suereth
In reply to this post by chas



On Mar 30, 2009, at 6:25 PM, "Charles F. Munat" <[hidden email]> wrote:

>
> I'd have to second David on this. If it ain't broke...
>

Keep coding until it is?

Although the standard use case in java for aspects is not so much  
needed in scala, I wouldn't throw it out completely.  It's another  
tool that could be useful in the right circumstances, like the C  
language.

> David Pollak wrote:
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Lee Mighdoll <[hidden email]
>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>>    Welcome Jonas!
>>
>>    I'd been thinking that some judicious use of aspectJ might be a  
>> nice
>>    fit for lift.  Rumor has it you know something about aspects...
>>
>>
>> AspectJ over my dead body.  :-)
>>
>> I think AOP is a dangerous and generally very bad thing to do (sorry
>> Jonas).  I have not found an application for it in Scala and would  
>> need
>> a lot of convincing to include it with anything Lift-related.
>>
>> Sorry for the wicked negative vibe against AOP... but it's one of my
>> hard-core things.
>>
>>
>>
>>    Lee
>>
>>
>>
>>    On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 11:15 AM, marius d. <[hidden email]
>>    <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>        Welcome Jonas !
>>
>>        On Mar 30, 7:52 pm, David Pollak  
>> <[hidden email]
>>        <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>        wrote:
>>> Folks,
>>>
>>> Please join me in welcoming Jonas as a Lift committer.  I had
>>        the pleasure
>>> of meeting Jonas as QCon in London this month.  Jonas, Tim,
>>        and I went out a
>>> grabbed a few pints and chatted.  I think Jonas has a lot to
>>        contribute to
>>> Lift.
>>>
>>> So, please join me in welcoming him!
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>> --
>>> Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net
>>        <http://liftweb.net>
>>> Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
>>        <http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890>
>>> Follow me:http://twitter.com/dpp
>>> Git some:http://github.com/dpp
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
>> Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
>> Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
>> Git some: http://github.com/dpp
>>
>>>
>
> >

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Re: Welcome Jonas Bonér to the Lift committers

chas

My point was that so far Lift seems to be fine without it. When a
problem crops up for which AOP appears to be the best or only solution,
then it will be worth considering it. Until then, it is only change for
change's sake, IMO, otherwise known as feature creep. I'm a fan of
Occam: don't overly complicate things. Unnecessary features = more bugs
and more code to maintain.

As more and more Java programmers discover Scala (and Lift), there is
going to be increasing pressure to incorporate Java's features
because... well, because that's what people are used to. IMHO, the
Scala/Lift community should resist this pressure to the extent possible,
and only incorporate ideas that are really necessary.

Furthermore, I think that the community (and I believe it already does
this), should look to many other languages for the best ways to
accomplish goals.

Chas.

Josh Suereth wrote:

>
>
> On Mar 30, 2009, at 6:25 PM, "Charles F. Munat" <[hidden email]> wrote:
>
>> I'd have to second David on this. If it ain't broke...
>>
>
> Keep coding until it is?
>
> Although the standard use case in java for aspects is not so much  
> needed in scala, I wouldn't throw it out completely.  It's another  
> tool that could be useful in the right circumstances, like the C  
> language.
>
>> David Pollak wrote:
>>>
>>> On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 11:26 AM, Lee Mighdoll <[hidden email]
>>> <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>
>>>    Welcome Jonas!
>>>
>>>    I'd been thinking that some judicious use of aspectJ might be a  
>>> nice
>>>    fit for lift.  Rumor has it you know something about aspects...
>>>
>>>
>>> AspectJ over my dead body.  :-)
>>>
>>> I think AOP is a dangerous and generally very bad thing to do (sorry
>>> Jonas).  I have not found an application for it in Scala and would  
>>> need
>>> a lot of convincing to include it with anything Lift-related.
>>>
>>> Sorry for the wicked negative vibe against AOP... but it's one of my
>>> hard-core things.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    Lee
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 11:15 AM, marius d. <[hidden email]
>>>    <mailto:[hidden email]>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>        Welcome Jonas !
>>>
>>>        On Mar 30, 7:52 pm, David Pollak  
>>> <[hidden email]
>>>        <mailto:[hidden email]>>
>>>        wrote:
>>>> Folks,
>>>>
>>>> Please join me in welcoming Jonas as a Lift committer.  I had
>>>        the pleasure
>>>> of meeting Jonas as QCon in London this month.  Jonas, Tim,
>>>        and I went out a
>>>> grabbed a few pints and chatted.  I think Jonas has a lot to
>>>        contribute to
>>>> Lift.
>>>>
>>>> So, please join me in welcoming him!
>>>>
>>>> Thanks,
>>>>
>>>> David
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Lift, the simply functional web frameworkhttp://liftweb.net
>>>        <http://liftweb.net>
>>>> Beginning Scalahttp://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
>>>        <http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890>
>>>> Follow me:http://twitter.com/dpp
>>>> Git some:http://github.com/dpp
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Lift, the simply functional web framework http://liftweb.net
>>> Beginning Scala http://www.apress.com/book/view/1430219890
>>> Follow me: http://twitter.com/dpp
>>> Git some: http://github.com/dpp
>>>
>
> >

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